In this episode, John Maher speaks with Brian Sadler, Vice President of Solaris Renewables, about the Tesla Powerwall 3 and its benefits for homeowners and businesses. Brian explains how this latest version offers increased flexibility with both AC and DC coupling, allowing seamless integration with new and existing solar systems. They discuss the Powerwall 3’s features, including enhanced energy storage, real-time app control, and resilience during outages. The conversation also covers installation considerations, cost estimates, available incentives, and maintenance requirements, highlighting the Powerwall 3 as a forward-thinking, low-maintenance solution for energy independence and efficiency.
John Maher: Hi, I am John Maher and I’m here today with Brian Sadler, Vice President at Solaris Renewables, a solar company in Massachusetts providing premium solar and storage technologies with exceptional customer service and designing, installing and servicing solar systems in Massachusetts, Southern New Hampshire, and Maine. Today our topic is the Tesla Powerwall 3. Welcome, Brian.
Brian Sadler: Hi, John. Good to be with you today.
Benefits of the Tesla Powerwall 3
Maher: Yeah, thanks, you too. Brian, what are the benefits of the Tesla Powerwall 3 for my home or even my business?
Sadler: Good question. I think it’s a lot of things that people are wondering about, like what’s the point of a battery and what can it do for me? And some like the basics I would say is resiliency, security, and some savings depending on a couple factors. So in terms of resiliency, we’re speaking more about your home and your relationship with the grid, for instance.
So, in a power outage, the battery system is going to be able to pick up your home and you’d be able to carry on and do what you’re normally doing and have your same lifestyle. So, a lot of that’s resiliency against being down against the grid. Now, depending on where you live, some folks lose power and are without more often than others. Some folks don’t lose it as often, but a lot more people are working from home these days. Or they might have essential equipment, either be it medical or comfort and things like this, depending on, again, lifestyle and everyone’s family situation.
So again, it gives us a lot of resiliency, security, which overlaps a little bit, I would say that, again, if you lose power and if there’s any essential devices you need in your home or just having Wi-Fi, being able to work from home, if more and more folks are electrifying and energizing our home with smart equipment and integrating these pieces into our home, so if you have security systems or you have locks and different mechanisms, not to mention heating and things like that.
So, it gives us some more security in that respect as well. And then in terms of savings, in some cases the savings can be minimal. If you have a really good net metering program, which is how we get electricity savings with solar, then your savings might just be a few pennies per kilowatt-hour that you’re able to realize by storing power from your solar panels and then pulling it back on evenings, cloudy days, at night, or obviously an outage is more of security thing.
And then if you have other certain utilities, you have a much lower compensation for your net metering or your energy savings, and there’s where you’re able to actually get some real savings where you’re able to store those kilowatt-hours and then pull them back at the full retail rate. So you’re getting more of a one-to-one ratio and generating your own net metering program or savings program with your solar system.
So, I’d say those are the most basic ways that people look at storage with batteries and are interested in learning how they would work for them. But I would say a lot of people now just want your creature comforts. So, I just want what I want and I want to be able to continue on, even if I do lose power for an hour or two, it’s disruptive to my lifestyle, to my family, or for security, things like that. The landscape in our country through COVID and politically, folks want to be more resilient and in control and in a battery system, especially Powerwall 3 gives you that.
Battery Backup with Solar Systems
Maher: And maybe we should take a quick step back briefly and just talk about battery backup in general with solar systems. I think it’s maybe a misconception that people might have before they get solar installed on their house that, yeah, in the event of a power outage, can’t I just run my house off of the power that I’m generating from solar? But it doesn’t really work that way.
Sadler: Right. Good point. Good point. So yes, this is something we always want to discuss with customers and make sure they understand. So, you can have solar without a battery and you can have battery without solar, but if you have solar, then in the power outage, the inverter or the electronics that are taking that solar power and making it a usable power for our homes needs to see a signal from the grid in order to operate.
And that’s for safety reasons. So when the power goes out, there’s that signal is not there for the inverter to read and therefore the inverter shuts down. And that’s so that we’re not pushing power back onto the grid and injuring the folks that are trying to get our grid back up and running. So that’s really the key piece.
So, if you have solar, it doesn’t mean that you always have solar. It is grid tied and therefore has a relationship with the grid that needs to be up and running. Of course, unless you have an off-grid system, then it works differently. That’s meant to be off the grid and not have relationship with the grid.
Similarly, the battery system can operate with and without solar. It’s just really leveraging it with solar to make your electricity store that and then pull it back as opposed to relying on the grid, you’re buying additional kilowatt-hours from what your home needs to energize or charge up the battery and then acting as an electric generator essentially in the event of a power outage.
So, that’s really just strictly battery backup where you can have a little more functionality, especially the Powerwall 3 and all the Tesla products continue to evolve over time, which the app, the controls and the functionality itself as incentives or utility programs and functionality change, so will the product, which is really, I think, a forward-thinking piece of how Tesla operates and why their product is always at the top of the industry. But that’s the basics, right, of the solar and battery relationship.
Tesla Powerwall 3 Upgrades
Maher: So, speaking of change, this is the Powerwall 3 from Tesla. What has improved or changed in this version of the Powerwall compared to previous versions?
Sadler: The biggest thing is its AC and DC coupled, so what’s that mean, right? Their first battery that came out with Powerwall one was DC coupled, meaning you had to have a separate solar inverter or just an inverter for the battery to operate. At that time, we couldn’t have storage alone, you had to have it with solar. That’s changed through policy and so on and so forth.
But at the time you had a solar inverter that your solar panels came down to and made it usable power for the home. And then that power was also siphoned off or redirected with different controls to power or charge the battery. And then they saw early on that they’re limiting the flexibility, the design and the attributes that homeowners and businesses can take advantage of with that product. And so, they were working on what’s called an AC coupled. AC coupled means that it can attach directly to your main service panel in your home.
It can also attach to any solar system. So regardless of what solar inverter you have, is it a central inverter or a micro inverters? You could land the solar in the battery system and leverage the charging from the solar system and as well from the grid technically speaking. But at that, again, there’s this policy things involved there and it gave us the most flexibility. So basically it was the Powerwall 2 now can be installed with any solar system, so brand and type of solar system agnostic.
And now Powerwall 3 has the best of both worlds. So, Powerwall 3 is AC and DC coupled, meaning if you want to install a new solar system, you can land your solar system into the Powerwall 3 system and it acts as a solar inverter. It also can be installed on an existing solar system where its inverter now just acts as for the charging, the AC and DC conversion relationship between is it coming from the house or from solar and charging the battery and then back to the house.
So, it gives the most flexibility. We’ve even installed some that customers, so we installed it as a DC coupled system with new solar expansion, and they already had a solar system, so we landed their existing solar system in the battery system as well. So, they have both. So, the bottom line is it has the most flexibility for design, installation, and for customers to be able to leverage the attributes of all the functionality the most. And then the app and the control, the customers have full visibility and they’re able to control how and when they’re using the battery system, which is huge.
Installing a Tesla Powerwall 3
Maher: Talk a little bit about the installation process for the Tesla Powerwall 3 and with those various different scenarios, like you said, with adding it on at the same time as a solar system or maybe adding it later after you have a solar system installed. Does that change the installation process?
Sadler: It’s somewhat… So, if you have an existing solar system, we need to obviously understand, if it wasn’t us, it was someone else, especially what was done, what the vintage, what the code was at the time, what changes need to happen, if any, in order to accept and make the battery system the most functional. And if it’s new solar, then it’s the regular design engineering and utility application permitting process in order for us to install that system.
So, basically, we are going to have a site visit and then we’re going to gather all that information. We’re going to talk to the customer through any of the options of location or if there’s any electrical changes that need to be made or what do they want have back up versus do they want everything. Sometimes we need to take some loads off if they’re too high or you have to add capacity to be able to accept that load from the home.
So, there’s a variety of pieces that we look at with our project engineers to get those answers. And then we sus out the options with the customer and let them decide, do you want it here or there? Do you want this or that? And what type of functionality were your goals of having an energy storage system? And then once we get through all of the design, engineering, utility application permitting, then it’s a matter of just installing the product, which is typically between, it’s a day or two for just the battery itself, typically speaking.
And then obviously depends on the scope if they’re solar or other peripherals, EV chargers, smart panels, and a variety of other pieces that they may have chosen to do as well. So that’s the basics of the installation process.
Where Are Tesla Powerwall 3’s Installed?
Maher: Are you typically installing these in a basement near where your electrical panel is or maybe in a garage or something like that?
Sadler: Great question. And it depends, right? If you’re in Massachusetts in particular, we’ve had a pretty stringent fire code going on four or five years now, and it’s been a lot more challenging. So, I would say historically, yes, we installed them in basements and then that became you need to install them in a fire-enclosed or fire protected area.
And so, basements need to have a fire room built around them. In a rare circumstance that it’s a little bit lighter of a lift because there might be an alcove or there might be already a utility room that was already thought of being that fire protection. So, we default to garages, finished garages that essentially now they act as the fire room and they have that fire protection and meet all the code compliance. And with Powerwall 3, I think another big thing that they did is they put a heating element because they saw this fire code and it was limiting with the Powerwall 2, and Powerwall 2 in our region of the Northeast was not necessarily ideal for being outside.
And so to get around some of this fire code, Tesla engineered a heating element and more resiliency into the product to be installed outside with the Powerwall 3. So, the Powerwall 3 can be installed outside and comfortably work in temperatures to negative four and up to I think 130 or 40 degrees, something to that extent. So, it’s a much more resilient product and I think a lot of that’s the reaction to the fire codes, especially us here in Massachusetts and the Northeast we’re seeing and it is a big battery market and they were hip to that and reacted with designing and engineering in attributes to make the design and installation more flexible.
How Much Does it Cost to Install a Tesla Powerwall 3?
Maher: What’s the estimated cost on a Powerwall 3 including installation, and are there any rebates or incentives available?
Sadler: Absolutely. So, Massachusetts being one of the more expensive places to just do work, and then with all the fire code that we have on top of that where there’s also vehicle strikes. So, a lot of times we have to install bollards in folks’ garages or depending on if it’s in an urban environment, potentially on the outside to protect the battery from vehicle strikes. So that changes the cost, but we call it a typical installation.
So, a typical installation meaning the energy gateway, which is the transfer switch and controls that separates you from the grid and gives you that resiliency and security of the energy backup and one battery itself. So, turnkey design engineered all the utility and permitting and fully installed commissioned, and with our support we charge $18,000 for. That also qualifies for the federal tax credit, which is 30%. So that gets you, oh, my math is off, but it’s a little over $5,000, I think 5,600 bucks or so.
And then there is also in Massachusetts and some other of the New England states, depending on the utilities and if they are in multiple states, there is what’s called a virtual power plant or VPP program. And here it’s called Connected Solutions. National Grid and Ever Source are a part of that. And there’s an optional program you can take into get a cash incentive paid to you annually for five years, which equates to up to $750 per year per battery.
So, when you math it all together, you’re looking at a net cost after the incentives of around $3700, $3800. And if we compare that to a whole home generator, it’s a fraction of the price. And that’s what we usually want to do is compare an energy store system to a generator system. And they come off roughly the same cost if you want a whole home backup, it’s a matter of do you have a gas line coming to your house or willing to have propane. So that’s a separate piece and expense.
And then there’s ongoing, you have to have a maintenance program with generator, which is generally three to $400 a year plus fuel to run it on a weekly basis. And then there’s no incentive. So there’s an upfront cost and then additional costs for a generator as opposed to a battery system. There’s an upfront cost and then there’s incentives to help offset that cost. And people always ask what the payback time is and if you take all the incentives and the consideration, it roughly will pay for itself in five years or so.
There’s minimal savings, again, it depends on which utility you’re in because you can accelerate that payoff time with some savings obviously. But I would say that the battery system is more closely integrated into our home controlled with an app, the owner has all the control, it leverages our solar system so it can stay on in an outage and in theory it can be a perpetually operating home when the grid is off as long as there’s sunlight and you’re powering your battery during the day, recharging it, having your solar system power your house for the most part.
And then at night, the battery system takes over and powers your home. So, I think you get a lot more functionality, security, and there’s actually some payback so to speak, or reducing your costs by a long shot in comparison to a generator.
How Long Do Tesla Powerwall 3 Batteries Last?
Maher: Okay, that’s good to know. What is the estimated life of a battery when you’re talking about something like the Tesla Powerwall 3? I know with my iPhone after a few years, it’s only at 85% capacity of what it used to be when it was brand new or something like that. Do you have similar problems with the Powerwalls? What do they say should be the estimated battery life?
Sadler: Battery life, I don’t know. So, they haven’t been around long enough to say. I know that the warranty, for instance, is 10 years and it is guaranteed to be operating at 70% of its day one capacity after 10 years. That means that 10 years from now it’s going to be 70% of what it was when you first had it installed. So, I feel like with keeping healthy use of the battery, not fully discharging it and charging it extreme, and also not using it, right? If you don’t use it, that’s not healthy for batteries either.
So, moderate cycling of the battery, using it when you need to use it, obviously in an outage and that’s when you really want to leverage it hard. And then I would think that a battery had no problem lasting 20 plus years. How far beyond that and what’s that usability look like? Is it down to 50 and 40%? It could be. I think also it has to do with is it installed for the older models in a more harsh environment or is it protected and in the condition space? So, all those things are considerations, but I mean the warranty being 10 years and guaranteeing that 70% tells me that Tesla is pretty confident that it’s going to have probably about double that lifespan given that it’s still at 70% after 10 years.
Maher: Right. If they’re warranting it for 10, it’s probably good for 20.
Sadler: Yeah.
What Maintenance is Needed for the Tesla Powerwall 3?
Maher: Are there any maintenance things that you have to do with a Powerwall? I mean, you mentioned some things that you probably want to make sure that you’re using it, not cycling it all the way down and all the way up, that sort of thing in order to extend its life. Other than doing that sort of thing, are there any maintenance requirements?
Sadler: No. No. That’s what’s great, right? So, that’s great about batteries and solar is, there’s very few, if any, moving parts and there’s no wear and tear so to speak. So it’s-just-
Maher: It’s not like a generator engine where you might have to get oil changes done and things like that.
Sadler: Things like cycled every Friday at noon for an hour or whatever to make sure it’s going to run. And there’s nothing like that. I would say like what we just talked about, it’s like having some responsible use of it. So for instance, I have one and I just use it 20% a day and just give it a little bit of cycling. And it’s also while I’m learning how it works and how to leverage it and how it works with my solar system in our family’s home and things like that, but I might change that.
We make recommendations to customers, maybe use it a little bit more in the summer months when it’s not necessarily as much of a need if the power goes out, you’re not as concerned with power going out. Then in the winter I probably want to keep that reserve level or the capacity of the battery up at a higher place. So, if we do lose power, I have the utmost support.
Maher: Especially if you’re relying on it for your heat or something like that in your home.
Sadler: So, there really shouldn’t be any maintenance. And inside of that 10 year period, if there’s any parts that need to be replaced or the whole unit would need to be replaced, then that is covered. The labor’s covered, Tesla essentially pays us to come service our customer’s Powerwall system at no cost to them. So, it’s a pretty significant different warranty than we’re talking about a generator as comparison.
About Solaris Renewables
Maher: Right. All right. Well that’s really great information, Brian. Thanks again for speaking with me today.
Sadler: Thanks John, I appreciate it.
Maher: And for more information, you can visit the website at Solarisrenewables.com or call 781-270-6555.